Q&A:
1. market share 8.4% in China CRO market in terms of clinical trial services?
Done by industry consultant. Definition include clinical management, data solution, lab, etc. Excluded DNPK, clinical materials manufacture. The number 8.4% is calculated by revenue. Ranked 8th globally.
In terms of number of trials, company has 20%+ mkt share – assuming that all the trials are outsourced but it is not the case. Dollar amounts are different for different projects in different stage.
2. overview of operating cost of each stage trials compared to global standard?
Cost advantage in China are gradually disappear because of labor cost increase and investigation requirements. Same indication eg. oncology China cost is at least 30% less than US - usually 40% cheaper; Passing through cost 20-25% cheaper charge customers; each researcher labor fee 20k-30k
3. 战略方面,泰格过去抓住药政改革机遇,国际化战略目标?多少收入来自海外药品订单?
主营业务临床业务,第一步2015年通过收购进入韩国,18年进入欧洲,东南亚和美国通过自建,未来优先磨合临床业务,扩大美国和西欧临床业务规模,通过两个途径 – 战略收购和自建。海外收入还是以国内客户为主,也希望开发当地客户资源,前期以中小型药企和biotech为主。海外并购的标的如果有在中国落地的机会,也会整合。
4. 面对国际市场不同文化,人员管理整合问题?
过去已经做了一些海外并购,积累了一些成功经验和失败教训,未来可以运用。经验包括如何寻找理念一致、有synergy的公司,比如方达,对质量体系都对很高的认识,虽然方达更专注于临床前。公司也积累了一些管理经验、MRCT的经验。香港上市后拥有国际化的平台,也利于海外并购。长期发展、以人为本、务实,管理层也有国际化背景,融合相对更容易
5. 各项业务发展是趋向于独立上市,还是集团化?
根据具体情况而定。韩国收购时候已经是当地很成熟的CRO公司,收购后成为泰格全球化布局的重要部分,标的和昆泰在韩国当地还有差距,借助泰格,在当地更好发挥优势
6. Expansion of services for Frontage? Allocation of proceeds to acquisition?
No intention to expand Frontage platform - they have relative independence in business operation as it is a company separately listed in HK. Proceeds may be used in potential M&A in US, EU lab service, biomarker discovery, concomitant diagnosis
7. how to improve synergy of frontage domestic business
1) Frontage handle earlier part of drug development. Customer relationship – get referral to Tiger
2) Tiger has many bio samples to analyze – refer these to Frontage CMC, Lab business. Get Frontage well-prepared for commercial manufacture
8. Future performance growth outlook? obligation backlog?
Company growth will benefit from overall industry growth. Industry has sufficient room to grow. Company will grow faster than industry average.
Duration of projects vary. Clinical operation backlog takes longer time. Backlog are dynamic – but will be faster than consumption
9. GCP relevant questions
Biggest issue is the environment/study result integrity affect the quality. Aviation is very usual. Upcoming GCP registration requirements lead to more clinical site open. Many new sites will help, provide more options to sponsors. Company has much experience in those sites which were not GCP
10. pay to CRO or hospitals?
Hospitals management determine how to calculate their own cost and CRO labor cost. Each cases discuss specifically. General consensus 30k in domination costs. Paid from sponsor directly to hospital or through CRO. Recruitment cost - associate with referral and agent, origin in contract. Many international sponsors especially MNCs, they cannot involve any sales in clinical studies
11. 对于外资企业订单,未来外资企业很多是全球多中心,订单规划和准备?
海外规划是从中国走出去,首先服务中国企业走向世界,不排除通过并购实现,也迎合海外biotech在中国的业务需求,这些企业不一定是MNC的菜,更愿意和泰格合作。真正global布局还需要时间。主要还是服务中国企业走出去的MRCT.
12. 关于投资收益,海外布局对投资领域的设想
国内发展快,得益于国内药政改革,国内很多创业者具备条件,公司通过投资活动孵化,2018年开始投资转向海外,不止并购,类似国内早期产业链布局,但海外growth pattern不同,市场更加成熟,投资收益没有硬性要求,顺势而为。国内近两年储备的项目已经达到一定规模,也会通过香港上市加大海外投资力度。海外投资在美国存在限制和不确定性,不是公司熟悉的市场,投资是为了生态圈的建设和升级
13. 国内订单目前多以仿创为主,国内first in class订单何时出现,是否会有断层可能性
任何一个药品不能靠进口企业垄断,国内会有越来越多有first in class潜质的药
14. 2019年ongoing的临床项目,大临床breakdown,多少来自于器械
器械148个ongoing,主要是2类器械和进口公司IVD临床。药品临床项目口径包含泰格并表,世界各地区的临床项目
15. 器械项目的金额和size
与药品项目的不同点,器械有3类,2、3类需要临床试验,分期分成上市前和上市后,样本量与新药有可比性,不同的器械项目很难generalize收入大小。
16. 市占率统计方法,是否包括passthrough,前五市占率约30%,剩下70%市场流向?
公司的口径是purely service revenue, passthrough deducted。Percentage subject to discussion。 药企自己做临床试验不在统计范围内,认为8.4%这个市占率略低。
17. 股权激励,国内员工给A股,海外员工给港股?
公司内部还没有明文政策,港股上市后激励选择多,外籍人士首选港股。
18. manage sponsor
From operation standpoint, do not differentiate sponsor in terms of region. More local sponsors hire experienced professionals from MNCs to join.
19. clinical projects breakdown?
Biological (1/3) and chemical (2/3)?
20. Difference between outsource percentage US and China?
Developed mkt has higher outsource rate than China.
21. How many drug targets are working at?
Cover most of popular targets developed in China market. Selection criteria - do not want to work on many projects on same indications.
22. 收入确认模式?细分收入规模?
完工百分比法。根据进度来确定。每一块收入的growth pattern不同,driver不同,segment reporting希望能提供判断依据
23. 项目数量过去三年CAGR 30%,价格上升幅度?
项目价格这两年提升,毛利上升,单产提升明显,尤其是大临床部分,市场环境对质量规范要求提升,也是行业集中度提升、竞争格局较好的原因,参与竞争的玩家有限,大家不会打价格战,供给相对紧张。
24. 员工工作的capacity,未来承接的能力?成本端?
根据在手订单,先有工作量,再招人,不存在人招进来没事干,人员单项涨,成本上升会转嫁给sponsor,随着竞争格局优化,也有其他手段,如自己培养人员,从底层开始培养,工资结构可控,比如数统业务在嘉兴建立,人员成本比上海低,数统业务毛利率持续上涨。多方面手段优化人员成本。
25. Turnover rate?
2016、17年人才紧缺,turnover rate 20%+. 最快的是entry level,3年经验以内。有了股权激励后,留存率更高,业绩好的板块turnover很低,如数统、方达中国区实验
26. 国内外并购
国内布局较成熟,没有看到大的并购需求,这几年在细分领域有优势和特色的小业务板块上弥补,比如医学翻译。国外的成长方式主要有并购,海外并购的规模可能会更大,关键在于快速融入全球药物研发一体化的体系
27. 新客户和现有客户的收入构成?新客户来自并购项目?新客户中,国内和海外客户占比?每年新增客户目标?
有的客户合作时间长,如默沙东已经服务了十几年。一些公司刚刚建立合作关系,如biotech。没有在该维度做详细细分,提供服务时一视同仁,按照最严格的质量标准。最近几年在中国,新药开发加速,监管环境与国外靠拢,很多国际客户也慢慢进入中国,数统等业务开始support海外客户。中国区收入增长快,主要来自中国客户,中国新客户增速应该比海外快。新客户没有硬性指标,越多越好,考虑客户和项目的quality,保证服务质量基础上最大化利用或增加capacity。从BD的角度,有目标,希望更多engage 新客户,过去两年都希望新客户占整个business 20-25%,基本达到目标。
28. 临床试验时间较行业平均更短?如何提高效率?
Design不一样的情况下难以比较,跟药物的竞争格局也有关,有专门的unit work with site